Et par dage siden, skrev jeg en artikel du beder om hjælp fra mine læsere beder om emner for mig at skrive om.
De to områder af kommentarer er blevet det filippinske sans for humor eller mangel på nogen på den måde, vi joke eller fortælle vittigheder. Det andet område, hvor der var et par kommentarer, var det sproglige problem og kommunikation.
Marcel, der bor i Canada, nævnte, at hans filippinsk kone, når hun har en anden filippinsk i deres hjem ville tale i tagalog.
Steve, der nu bor her i Davao med sin filippinsk kone og 5-årige datter, nævner når der er filippinske gæster i deres hjem, vil hans kone har samtaler i Bisaya ignorere det faktum, at han er der.
Ian, som også bor i Davao, har det samme problem.
For mig er det det samme. Jeg bor sammen med min kone og tre niecer. I øjeblikket vores nevø er hjem fra sin Marine Engineering job og er her med sin kæreste. Medmindre nogen taler til mig, bliver Bisaya anvendes i udstrakt grad. Når jeg spørger, hvad de taler om, jeg som regel at vide noget vag. Eller "det er ingenting."
Når jeg stiller et spørgsmål, jeg får et eller to ord, svar som "OK", "måske", eller sådan. Når jeg klager, jeg ofte at vide, "vi er ikke i Amerika, du er i Filippinerne." Med al den snak om respekt filippinerne har for ældre, betyder det ikke, hvis det direkte påvirker dem.
Mine niecer er enten at deltage, eller har færdiggjort sin uddannelse til sygeplejerske. De har haft engelsk i skolen i mange år. De kan læse engelsk og kan skrive deres rapporter i college på engelsk også. De ser engelske film og tv-udsendelser. Men med denne viden, vil de ikke bruge den foran mig. For mig, vil de ikke bruge energi til at tænke og tale med mig.
Det er ikke kun i mit hjem, det er i de fleste blandede ægteskaber her. Jeg ved, det er deres land, deres sprog og vi valgte at flytte her. For mig er det interessant, da jeg besøgte her før mit skifte, vil de fleste tale med mig. Nu er jeg her, er det forbi.
Hvis du flytter her og bare leve med din partner, er der ikke meget at vælge imellem, men hvis hendes venner eller familie besøg, eller hvis du hyre en indenlandsk hjælper, eller hvis familiemedlemmer bevæge sig i brugen af engelsk vil aftage kraftigt.
Nu nogle læsere tilkendegive deres interesse for at lære det lokale sprog. Hvis du vælger Bisaya / Cebuano, vil du forstå det sprog, de fleste her taler, men hvad med lokal-tv. De fleste tv-shows er i tagalog. Jeg undrer mig, hvis meddelelsen er at holde os ude af sløjfen eller bare fordi de ikke er villige til at kommunikere på engelsk omkring os. Hvad hvis du lærer Bisaya og derefter besøgende tale tagalog, du befinder dig i mørket igen.
Jeg ved, at der er en iboende skyhed fra filippinere taler engelsk. De er bange for deres udtale kan have fejl, eller at de ikke taler tydeligt. Jeg vil fortælle venner og familie til at prøve. Hvis de ikke kan finde et ord til at udtrykke en tanke, kan vi finde ord. Jeg er tålmodig, jeg vil bare gerne se dem prøve at kommunikere med mig.
På grund af denne isolation og fra hvad jeg har hørt andre i samme situation, tilbringer mange expats meget af deres tid hjemme i soveværelset. De fleste har et tv derinde og deres computer. Jeg kender en expat, der spiser sine måltider i sit soveværelse for. Jeg spiser med familien, men den eneste engelske talt ved bordet er fra mig.
For mig er denne situation omstridt. Jeg kan ikke ændre hvad der har været siden jeg flyttede hertil. Hvis du flytter her til at leve med en filippinsk, enten en hustru, der har været i USA eller nogen du planlægger at gifte sig her, så prøv at gøre dette problem forstået. Det kan ende med planerne, men hvis du ikke kan acceptere dette liv, kan det ende på grund af det.
Jeg håber i fremtiden, når mine niecer til udlandet for at arbejde eller gifte sig og flytte ud af hjemmet, vil tingene ændre sig. Jeg har også levet et isoleret liv i min fortid, så jeg er vant til det. Jeg lægger mærke til jeg er ude af huset i løbet af dagen mere end tidligere, så jeg kan være sammen med venner og være i stand til at have samtaler.
106 Kommentarer til "Isolation i en filippinsk / udlænding husstand"
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Er deres sprog, kompliceret, at du ikke kan lære nok til at klare? Er der noget sted at tage klasser undervisning i sprog? Hvis det er tilfældet, der ville få dig ud af huset og løse den sproglige barriere. Jeg kender på vores alder tænker på at gå tilbage til skolen, lyder ikke sjovt, men du skal gøre, hvad du skal gøre. Mine 2 cents eller skulle jeg sige peso. Jeff
Jeff,
Der er lærere her, men jeg er ikke villig til at bruge penge for denne udgift. Et af de første problemer jeg ser på det sprog, er forskellen i udtalen af bogstaver er anderledes end nogle på engelsk. Også grammatik er anderledes. Jeg har været her 2 år og afhente nogle nye ord til tider. Måske jeg en dag vil tage springet.
Det ser ud til, at hvis det er dit hus, og du er lederen af huset ville det være dig, at indstille regler, og at dine niecer, som lever under dit tag ud af venlighed af dig og din kone vil være dem, der skal kan tilpasse deres adfærd, synes du ikke? Du nævnte, at de tager op sygepleje som en karriere i håb om at forbedre deres liv og livsstil ved at gå til udlandet for at arbejde og bo. Med alle gøre respekt ... jeg tror ikke, at de vil blive tale Tagalog / Bisayan / Cebuano i deres fremtidige hjem eller hospital. Måske det er dem med udsigt over en gylden mulighed for at lære at tale engelsk i en mere indfødte manner.Perhaps et skub fra dig eller din kone kan minde dem om det!
Jeg kender en Pinay læge her i LA ... og vi diskuterede det meget issue.And brugen af Taglish blandet med engelsk blandt sygeplejersker her i LA. Hun sagde, at i hendes familie (en familie af advokater ... hun er sorte får selvfølgelig som en læge), det var modløs, og at mens en studerende ved University of Filippinerne Medical School ... det var modløs, og hvis hørte kunne bringe hurtige skadevirkning. Hun er ganske godt uddannet fra en god familie i Manila og en meget succesrig plastikkirurg her i LA, og 33 år old.So Jeg tror ikke, det er et generationsskifte forskel snarere en pædagogisk en.
Bare min personlige følelse af ting.
Som sædvanlig ... du gør et stort stykke arbejde med dine observationer om livet i Davao.
Michael,
Jeg er ikke leder af husstanden. Vores leveomkostninger er ikke kun fra mig. Den "min måde eller motorvej" attitude virker ikke, medmindre det er mig at trykke på vej.
Jeff-når du spørger, om sproget er så kompliceret, at vi ikke kan lære nok til at klare? Jeg går ud fra, at kommentar, du har lært at tale nye sprog i de seneste par år! lol Det tog tre eller fire års studier 5 timer om ugen, når vi er unge er langt sværere nu. Jeg har ikke mødt et barn men som efter det første år at lære et nyt sprog i gymnasiet kunne tale nok til at tale i den. Jeg tror, at ved den tid, de fleste af os var i stand til at konversere i Visayan eller Talalog med en indfødt kan vi meget vel løbe tør for tid! Og ved du hvad jeg mener med det! lol
Personligt kan jeg gøre gøre en indsats for at bruge de ord i Visayan, at jeg kender, og som altid fik meget godt! Selv undertiden med forundring. Men at lære nok til at kunne sidde ved middagsbordet og bære på en halv måder intelligent samtale? glem det! Bare ikke gonna ske! Måske vil nogle synes, jeg forventer for meget, men for mig, hvis du ønsker at komme til at leve i denne engelsktalende fyre hus, at en engelsktalende job betalt for, og spise sin mad, som en engelsktalende job betalt for, og nyd alle de fordele, der følger med at leve med en engelsktalende person, at det er kun rimeligt, at du respekterer det faktum, at han ikke taler Visayan eller Tagalog.
Ian,
De få ord, jeg kender og bruger er Salamat (tak), Wali sapian (din velkomst), Maayong Butang, hipon, gibee (god morgen, eftermiddag, aften) Wala (venstre) Tao (højre) og få et smil, når de anvendes.
For noget forvirrende, Wala (er sidste bogstav forkortet Nej, wala (sidste brev strakt) er tilbage. Så jeg vittighed, "Nej Venstre) er wala wala."
I vores hus også en masse Tagalog tales. Også Bicol mellem min kone og hjælperen.
Men når jeg er rundt, alle er nødt til at prøve deres bedste for at tale engelsk, especialy når jeg involveret i diskussionen. Hvis jeg arbejder på min computer eller gøre noget andet, kan de sige hvad de vil.
Jeg forsøger at forstå tagalog, og jeg forstår noget af det, men ikke nok til at deltage i en samtale i tagalog. I min alder (60) det er svært at lære et nyt sprog, som ikke har en klar grammatik.
Jan,
For mig, føler jeg, hvis jeg lærer Tagalog de vil tale Bisaya. Hvis jeg lærer Bisaya de vil tale Tagalog. Hvis jeg lære både, vil de finde en anden dialekt til at tale.
Åh ja, jeg forstår godt, at det ikke er let at lære et andet sprog, (på vores aldre) især de mange brugte versioner og blandede dialekter, der tales i Filippinerne. Men jeg ved, bor her i USA, er det en fælles klage til alle de udlændinge, der er her, "lære sproget" = "Vi taler engelsk her". Men USA er gået ud af sin måde at imødekomme ved at sætte spanske og andre tunger på de fleste hvert produkt, du kan købe her. Hvis jeg skulle flytte til Mexico, jeg ville ikke forvente dem til at passe til mig, som vi gør dem. Jeg ville være nødt til at lære sproget. Som jeg sagde Bruce, før jeg overvejer mellem Belize eller Filippinerne for pensionering. Belize vigtigste sprog er engelsk. Jo mere jeg læser og lærer, er Belize ser bedre.
Jeff,
Du er korrekte. Men den filippinske Govt reklamerer for brugen af engelsk, og det er en af de officielle sprog. Men nogle taler dårligt engelsk, da kvaliteten af engelsk undervises i skolerne er dårligt for. Der er også den følelse, "det er ikke mit sprog, så hvorfor sige det"
Om Belize, er intet sted perfekt, de har alle fordele og ulemper. Som jeg sagde tidligere, uanset hvor du vælger, foretage nogle lange besøg for at forsøge at få en fornemmelse for landet. To uger i et 5 stjernet hotel kun viser dig det gode liv, hvis din rig og vil bo på hotellet.
Min kone har lært, at når jeg giver hende hesten øjet under en af deres samtaler hun vil stoppe og forklare mig, hvad de taler om. Jeg har fået til det punkt, som jeg normalt kan samle op på emnet, men 9 gange ud af ti samtalen er bare intet af betydning, blot filippinere yakking om dag til dag junk ... som de elsker at gøre. Jeg har ikke noget imod at høre om de gode ting senere. Hvad jeg finder meget uhøfligt er folk afbryde min kone og mig, når vi står der at have en samtale, og de bare skæfte på og begynde at tale til min kone, som om jeg ikke var der.
Marvin,
Interruptions and ignoring you while talking is so common here. They talk about “Respect” but it is a one way street.
Min kone har været i Canada for knap et år nu, så jeg prøver at tolerere lejlighedsvise glider. Men vi er på engelsk talende land, og jeg forventer hende til at tale engelsk hele tiden, undtagen i situationer, hvor anden person ikke kan tale engelsk (hvilket er ret sjældent her). På toppen af det, er hendes engelsk meget godt, så det ikke er alt for svært at følge min anmodning, hvis hun forsøger. Hun har forsøgt sit bedste, men det er for det meste andre Pinoys der starter samtale i deres sprog, og hun følger. Som det blev nævnt her af andre mennesker, ting, de taler om, er uden interesse for mig for det meste, men jeg finder det meget uhøflig og fornærmende alligevel. Og der har været nogle tilfælde, hvor emnet var direkte om mig og min beslutning om visse spørgsmål var påkrævet, og jeg måtte vente til min kone at afslutte sit blah, blah med anden part, før jeg endelig fik lov til at vide, hvad der er blevet diskuteret. Meget af tiden blev spildt på denne måde, og min tålmodighed er løbet meget tynd. Der var få tilfælde, at jeg helt har blæste af min låget og brød ind i opvarmet argument. Nu har jeg strengt kræver, at mens vi bor i Canada, ønsker jeg ikke at høre nogen filippinske i min tilstedeværelse, hvis det overhovedet er muligt. Gutter har meget værre situation at håndtere at være i deres land, men jeg tror, at din nærmeste familie og gæster i dit hus, bør gøre deres bedste for at tale på engelsk.
Marcel,
Du er korrekte. Lad mig vide, hvor længe der varer, når du flytter her.
For mig er det samme situation som din Bruce. Jeg kun spørge min kone og sine børn til at tale engelsk ved middagsbordet, men de plejer. De kunne være lidt mere betænksom. Efter alt, hvad vi sende disse børn i skole. De har været til kollegiet man er i high school, men min pointe er, at jeg kun bede for dem at tale engelsk på bordet ved måltiderne. Jeg har et tv i soveværelset nu og tage de fleste af mine måltider der also.When hendes familie eller venner kommer over de automatisk begynde at tale derinde eget sprog, og Thats når jeg bare forlader lokalet. Efter at alle forlader Thats når jeg fortalte at jeg var uhøflig, på engelsk af vejen. Der synes at være en standard for filippinere og en anden Foe udlændinge her og automatisk (magisk) bør vi vide, hvad de skal gøre og hvordan de skal handle. Jeg lærte ikke sproget her, fordi jeg blev lo, da jeg mispronounced ordene. Jeg fik træt af at forsøge efter et par måneder, hvis jeg skulle blive leet hver gang.
Steve,
As I mentioned in my reply to Marvin, respect is a one way street.
For me it was the same in my first marriage. I lived in California and married a lady originally from Argentina. When her family came to our house for a family dinner, they spoke Spanish. One time I left the dinner table and went to my bedroom. My wife told me I was rude. I told her they were guests in my house and they were the ones rude. I told her as my wife, she should stand up for me, not them.
We have little choices here so we need to get used to it. I find myself spending more time with expats so I can talk, but many have lifestyles different than mine so that get uncomfortable too listning to them brag about their women, bars, and golf.
Hej, jeg er ny til dit websted. Dens et godt sted for du har lavet en mulighed for lokale og udlændinge til at lære fra dine observationer og udtalelser om at leve med liv og kultur Davao.
Med hensyn til det emne, du har sendt, er jeg enig med dine observationer. For et par år siden, havde jeg en amerikansk nabo Mr. Art Cole, en pensionist, der blev gift med en filippinsk her i Davao. Begge var i sixtees alderen. Kunst, som er en åbenhjertig type person, der normalt hæve sin stemme at sige: "Tal på engelsk ... på engelsk", når familie eller venner af hans kone begyndte at tale. Dette sker som regel i løbet af morgenmad, frokost, og selv middag tid, hvor de fleste mennesker i hans hus samles omkring.
Selvom, Art formået at etablere en "engelsk please" politik for ethvert medlem af huset til at tale engelsk, når de er foran ham, var der stadig er tilfælde, folk talte Cebuano eller Tagalog bag hans ryg.
Det meste af tiden, kan jeg observere Art "isolerer" sig Infront af tv-apparat eller Infront af sin bærbare computer - tilbagetog fra "støjende og boblende" tale om hans kone og familie / venner der bor hos dem.
Jeg troede sådan scenario Ovenstående er blot et isoleret tilfælde, men som jeg læser fra dit websted, var det ikke. Jeg kan forestille mig at det er vanskeligt, at man skal gå igennem. Det er svært at lære nye sprog som Cebuano eller Tagalog på egen hånd.
Jeg håber, at filippinere besøger dit websted kan hjælpe engelsktalende udlændinge, der er i en lignende fix klare op med den sproglige barriere, og nyde at bo her i Davao.
Mere magt til dig. Tak.
Cæsar EREL O. Macahilig
Freelance Translator
(EnglishTagalog og EnglishCebuano)
Cesar,
Tak for at finde og nyde mit site. Jeg nyder at have filippinske læsere og dem deler deres kommentarer og synspunkter. Jeg lærer mere af filippinere, der stadig bor her, så Expats eller filippinere bor i udlandet.
Jeg håber at møde dig en dag. Også hvis du nogensinde har noget at dele med læserne, jeg byder dig velkommen til at være en gæst forfatter.
Det er ikke isoleret, er det mere normen. Selv når par bliver sammen, Expats sidder ved et bord og koner på et andet.
Siden din sympatisk. Hvis du i Davao, måske oprette en gratis Biscaya klasse for udlændinge at lære Mange af os ikke har råd til at hyre en privat lærer.
Hej Bruce,
Yes, I agree with you. It's more on the norm. Getting into isolation is one of the result of it.
Thank you for offering me to be a guest writer on your site. I will try to share some to the readers. (though I am not a writer myself).
Having a free Biscay class for expats is a good idea. Sure, I would be glad to help the expats here in Davao. ITS FREE. Let us try what we can do to learn Cebuano and Tagalog…
By the way Bruce, I do live in Davao City at Bolton Street. I am also an employee at the Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines at Davao airport.
Tak igen.
Caesar Erel O. Macahilig
Freelance Translator
English-Cebuano and English-Tagalog
Cæsar,
Do not worry about being a writer, nether am I.
Jeg vil tale med de Expats, jeg kender, og måske kan vi prøve at finde en placering til klasser, hvis vi får nok interesse. Jeg redigerer din kommentar til at fjerne din email og celle, jeg føler det burde ikke være ude for nogen at have.
Bruce Jeg sætter pris på din ærlighed, som jeg har angivet på din blog før. Jeg overvejer at forlade Filippinerne på grund af de lanuage problemer. Jeg var at kontrollere internettet for mulige flytning steder og ramte på en blog for Den Dominikanske Republik. Nogen spurgte om han pensioneres til Den Dominikanske Republik og en amerikansk, der hævder at leve i Filippinerne sagde: "Hvorfor tænke på, der bor i Den Dominikanske Republik, fordi sproget altid vil være et problem. I Den Dominikanske Republik alle har til at få barer på deres vinduer. Jeg bor i Filippinerne alle taler flydende "perfekte" og n en har barer på deres vinduer. "Hvorfor vil han lyve? Det har været min erfaring, få tale mundtligt engelsk, og så vidt "perfekte" engelsk ville jeg ikke vide det, hvis jeg hørte det. Hvert sted jeg har boet i Filippinerne har der været barer på vinduer undtagen min 37. etage condominum i Manila.
De, der siger, lære sproget normalt virke som om du kan sætte et bånd på at sove og vågner tale et nyt sprog. Hvilket sprog skal de have mig til at lære, da der er så mange dialekter. Jeg læste i avisen forleden, at fredsforhandlingerne med MILF er vanskeligt, fordi de Filippinerne parter, der deltager tale ti forskellige dialekter. De er alle fra Mindanao. Men det virkelige problem er, at jeg har prøvet, og kan ikke lære Tagalog og for gammel til at være frustreret forsøger bare så jeg kan blive i Filippinerne.
Jeg føler mig isoleret. Det sværeste for mig er at være på offentlige steder, og ikke vide, hvad der foregår omkring mig. Min nabo taler godt engelsk, fordi en mand fra England støtter hende og hendes barn, og hun er nødt til at tale engelsk, når han kommer over hver to måneder for ti dage. Hun var en OFW på et hotel i Singapore. Hun kommer ud for at besøge med Cardawe. Hun sidder i min stue, se mit tv, spise og drikke min mad og insistere på at tale en lanugauge jeg ikke forstår. I fortiden, da hun ville forlade jeg ville blive forstyrret i Cardawe for ikke at fortælle hende at tale engelsk. Han ville fortælle mig, at han gjorde. Jeg fortalte ham ikke svare på andet end engelsk. Han gjorde det, men hun ville svare på Bisaya. Jeg måtte til sidst fortælle hende ikke at komme tilbage, hvis hun ikke kunne være mere respekt for mig. Jeg ville have været tolerante, hvis hun ikke taler engelsk, men det var ikke tilfældet.
Cardawe min pårørende taler ordentligt engelsk, og hvis ikke for at jeg ikke kunne og ville ikke blive en anden dag i Filippinerne. Jeg kan godt lide vejret, jeg kan lide langsommere tempo, landet er smuk, kan jeg tåle den mad, jeg har stort set alt her, at jeg havde i USA, og den medicinske behandling jeg får, er fremragende. Mange har fortalt mig, at de ville ønske, de var så heldige, men kommunikationen skal være mere vigtig for mig end dem.
Jeg blev lokket til Filippinerne fra Los Angeles konsulat fortælle mig alle i Filippinerne talte engelsk. Jeg fik at vide engelsk var det eneste sprog, der anvendes i skoler og et barn kunne ikke blive færdig High School eller deltage i college, hvis de ikke taler flydende engelsk. Jeg drej til internettet og blev fodret den ligger, at mange Expat indlæg om alle taler engelsk. Jeg ønsker dit websted eksisterede, før jeg lavede flytningen, og jeg ikke ville have flyttet her. Jeg er sikker på jeg kunne have fundet et sted langt tættere på USA end Filippinerne for at leve, hvis jeg ikke ville have overvejet sproget problemet.
Jeg forstår din frustration og symphatize med dig.
Tom,
Da det er dit hjem og Cardawe, udover at være en ven, er din medarbejder, jeg enige om, at en regel om det sprog, der anvendes i dit hjem. Jeg kender den følelse af isolation og ønske vi var tættere venner. Som du ved, du er velkommen i mit hjem, når du har lyst. Nu ved jeg, om din svært af min rygning, kan jeg respektfuldt skridt uden for en røg, hvis du besøger.
Du kommentere på den Dominikanske Republik. Deres sprog er spansk med en masse Creole fransk. Du vil måske se nærmere på Belize. Hvis du har brug for en kammerat og ven med dig, kunne jeg være til rådighed.
Hej Sir, måske er det på høje tid, du lærer både bisaya og tagalog, så du ikke være ude af løkken
Erlyn,
Jeg er enig. Ville du være villig til at være min lærer?
Naturligvis mange mennesker [ok-udenlandske fyre! LOL] føler på samme måde som jeg gør, at vi gør vores bedste for at passe ind i en meget anderledes kultur, fordi-bare for at være ærlig, vi ønsker at have et forhold til en kvinde, der er forhåbentlig mindre fordømmende og mindre krævende, hvad vi er bruges til. Tingene har fået så meget ude af hånd, hvor de fleste af os kommer fra, at vi ville hellere leve med os selv, end nødt til at affinde sig med den slags forhold, at mange [de fleste?] Kvinder i vores generation efterspørgsel på os hjem. Så, ikke er villig til helt at opgive vores identitet eller udlevere vores bolde over på et fad søger vi en kultur, hvor vi forhåbentlig vil stadig blive værdsat som mænd! Og mange af os oplever, at her i Filippinerne. Vi dont kommer her, fordi vi vil have nogen til at være vores slave eller tjener, men snarere fordi vi ønsker en situation, der stadig tillader os at føle sig som mænd-ansvarlig, stærk, omsorgsfuld-og lige. Vi ved, når vi kommer her, at der vil være problemer, og forsøg. At vores ophold her er altid noget svag på trods af vores indvandring status. At vi altid vil blive set som en finansiel offer parat til fleece-af regeringen, af politiet, af de handlende, og undertiden ved vore kære og deres udvidede familier. Min kone - som arbejder-ved hendes eget valg coz vi dont brug for penge altid bliver spurgt, hvorfor hun arbejder, når hun "har en udlænding"! lol gerne en eller anden måde have en hvid fyr, hun har vundet i lotteriet, og nu hendes liv er perfekt! lol Og når de siger "med en udlænding", de siger det på samme måde, at nogen siger "at have en hund '! Som om alle udlændinge er ens, og det ikke ligegyldigt, hvilken en du har, lige så længe du har en!
Behage dont få mig forkert, jeg er her ved valg. Jeg er heldig nok til at kunne leve overalt, hvor jeg vil. Men jeg ønsker at finde ud af, hvordan andre fyre har løst den manglende respekt om sproget problemet, dvs at nægte at respektere ud manglende evne til at tale Visayan / Tagalog. jeg dont ønsker at gå på bare at klage over det, heller ikke jeg ønsker at skjule sig i mit kontor, spise mine måltider er der mig selv som mindst 2 fyre her har nævnt. Som en trold synes ikke at arbejde, heller ikke anbringender til respekt. Hvad virker? Vi har hørt fra de fyre, der havent været i stand til at løse problemet-how om at høre fra de fyre, der har løst problemet [hvis ja der er nogen! lol]
Wow, at min ven var brutalt ærlig! Nu har været her fem år, jeg føler jeg nu, hvordan min bedstefar filt eller blev behandlet noget, da han ankom til USA fra Litauen. Han har aldrig lært engelsk og blev benyttet af mange gange gennem sit liv i Oregon. Nu ved jeg, hvor mange af latinamerikanere følte på min arbejdsplads, eller tilbage i 70'erne, da jeg arbejdede med store antal bådflygtninge fra Vietnam, eller den professionelle iranerne vi hyret til mindsteløn. Nu ved jeg hvad diskrimination føles, men min filippinsk kone elsker mig og tager sig af mig og på dette tidspunkt i mit liv, Thats alle der betyder noget.
Godt for dig, Marvin. I Amerika jeg her folk siger, "Hvis du i Amerika, taler engelsk eller gå hjem" nu er vi her i "deres" land .....
Jeg synes emnet er lidt gammel og slidt i kanterne. Stor ståhej for ingenting. Hvis, som Expats, er dette vores største bekymring, da No worries, Mate! Gå til stranden og slappe af.
SteveinDavao
Steve,
So how was your day at the beach yesterday?
Steve-du høre, hvordan folk føler så frustrerede og utilfredse med deres liv, i desperation de ty til at spise alene i deres soveværelse, og din kommentar er "stor ståhej for ingenting"??
Jeg æder, at du aldrig føler dig så frustreret min ven.
Og at dømme ud fra antallet af kommentarer til sagen er du den eneste, der føler, at emnet er "en lille, gammel og slidt i kanterne". Vi er rigtige mennesker her Steve med virkelige problemer og reelle bekymringer, og jeg er ked af, hvis vi er kedelige dig! Mate!
Ian,
Til forsvar for Steve, han har været her for blot et par måneder. Også hans kone boede i USA seks år med ham.
Jeg husker, da jeg var her kun et par måneder, og for mig, alt var vidunderligt, min kone og hendes niecer lever med os, var vidunderligt.
Jeg siger ikke, jeg hader dem, som jeg gør ikke. Jeg elsker dem alle højt og ville gøre noget for dem, livet ændrer sig over tid.
Din filippinske familiært blive fortrolig med dig i huset, og de vender tilbage til deres normale liv. De har også indser, at de cqan liv deres liv og ikke bekymre dig om din.
Tænk tilbage til din næve par måneder, og fortæl mig, var det anderledes.
Jeg håber med denne hjemmeside, vil de kommentarer fra andre, og den anden Expats Steve lære. Også med denne information Steve kan justere eller undervise hans familie hans behov fra dem.
Bruce-gæt Steve ramt en rå nerve! lol Det er svært nok at acceptere det faktum, at vi får gamle, at de bedste tidspunkter i vores liv er bag os, at vi er nødt til at lære at acceptere, at vi er nødt til at se frem til øget sygdom, længere recovery tid, knogleskørhed, distraktion , øgede medicinske omkostninger etc etc - uden at indse, at i nogle tilfælde vores liv er bare så frustrerende, at vi føler grueligt fanget. Og det jeg mener er, hvordan det må være for nogen, der føler, han har at skjule sig i sit soveværelse ved spisetid, fordi han bare ikke stå, at han bliver ignoreret, og respektløst af dem, der angiveligt elsker ham. Dem omkring, som han har bygget sit nye liv. Heldigvis mit tilfælde er intet som det, men jeg føler virkelig, for de fyre, vi har hørt fra, for hvem der er deres virkelighed. Og det er grunden til mit tidligere indlæg Jeg valgte ikke at klynke og klage, men snarere at bede om at høre fra folk, der har formået at løse problemet.
Ian,
Hvis du er i dit hus er der engelsk talt med samtaler og fællesskab, hvis det bliver slemt for mig, har du et værelse til leje og slutte sig til familien?
Jeg ser frem til at møde dig en dag og komme til at kende dig.
Regel nr. 1: "SPEAK ENGLISH!!"
Jeg er Marcel kone, og som filippinsk jeg vil gerne lufte ud min mening om at tale engelsk som en "regel". Taler engelsk er altid et stort problem mellem de to af os, specielt hvis vi har mine kolleger filippinske omkring eller er jeg på telefonen besvare opkald fra en fyr filippinsk. Jeg forstår, at jeg er i et engelsktalende land, Canada så alle, herunder "jeg" især skal have et initiativ til at tale på engelsk eller bruge engelsk som den primære form for kommunikation til alle i Canada. Hvis jeg med min mand alene eller sammen med nogen, der ikke taler filippinsk sprog, jeg er meget spontan tale engelsk. Min mand bliver ved med at fortælle mig, at ingen andre sprog er tilladt for mig at bruge, mens vi er her i Canada specielt i hans nærvær, men "ENGLISH". Jeg forstår det, og jeg er OK med det, men mit problem det meste af tiden er når jeg begynder at tale til en kollega filippinsk jeg har blandede følelser, for en eller anden grund jeg har denne tøven at tale engelsk med mine kolleger filippinske "Jeg er nervøs for, at De tror måske jeg er filippiner og jeg holder på at tale engelsk til dem "og en anden er, det øjeblik jeg hører fyr filippinsk starten taler i filippinsk til mig, jeg kan ikke stoppe mig selv at blive overtalt af dem, og lade mig tale filippinsk tilbage i tilbage. Af en eller anden grund blev det automatisk, min underbevidsthed ville rette mig eller skifte tilstand mit sind, at hvis jeg kender, og jeg kan se, at jeg vil tale med en kollega filippinsk det gør mig til at glemme den "engelske Rule" og automatisk jeg taler Filippinsk , og hvis det eksempelvis skete i overværelse af min mand jeg forventer, at vi vil have en stor kamp med det samme. Han føler, at jeg gør det med vilje, at være så uhøflig, og at jeg forsømmer ham.
Marcel kone,
Jeg forstår både dine mænd og dine synspunkter. Det er svært, når nogen er på et sted, når folk taler på et andet sprog. Især hvis de her deres navn nævnt, og ikke vide, hvad der bliver sagt.
Din i Canada, hvordan du føler, hvis din omkring en gruppe af fransk canadiere, og de kun taler fransk.
Mindst du bruger engelsk, når du ikke med dine filippinske venner. For at se hvordan Marcel føles, har han invitere venner eller familie, der taler sit modersmål, og du sidde og se, hvad det er ligesom, især hvis du hører dit navn og nogle grin, og du ved ikke, om de er griner med dig, eller på dig.
For nogle der har kommenteret, de aldrig høre engelsk i deres hjem. They are isolated to their bedroom and only hear English if they go out and meet another expat.
My feelings when you have Filipino friends visit, have them at least spend some time speaking english and conversing with your Asawa. This way he will not feel isolated.
Ian, Bruce and others
I meant no ill will with my comments, only that life IS good here and we need to grasp at the good and let go of the things that bother us most! The sun is shining here and there's a blizzard in the states today. We need to appreciate that more and get out and have some fun.
I've been attending church and making friends there, and meetings with the Friends of Mindanao and making small trips to the beach and the local coffee shop. I'm not a business type, but friends are always a good idea, I'm not the beach type, but it's fresh air and sunshine and I'm not a big coffee drinker, but it's time out of the house.
All I'm saying is TRY. If we sit in our rooms and complain, nothing changes, right! When I came here I knew everyone did not speak English, although I thought more would try. As aggravating as that can be, it won't ruin my day, I won't let it! Ok, if I stay hidden from the world, that's my doing. Yes, I've spent my days in my bedroom with my TV and computer and I've even had a few meals there, but I'm not going to succumb to a self-imposed hermitage. Except for the fellow who is handicapped and can't get around well, we're all capable of doing something more and sitting around wishing for better times won't fix it.
We have to make better days. I guess I'm that annoying guy that always sees the glass as half full. Sorry for my insensitivity. I truly do not wish to hurt feelings here.
Now come on and smile, it's NOT snowing here! My family back in Ohio is Soooo jealous!
I'm always available to come out and have a coffee or lunch and I'd enjoy meeting you. Just holler and I'll be there.
SteveinDavao
Steve,
Your personality and positive outlook is one of the reasons I am glad we met and I consider you a REAL friend. I just wish we could see each other more often.
With this site, we can look back in a year or two and see if you have changed.
About the glass and the water, remember, here in the Philippines one drop of water is Tubig (too big)
Bruce, jeg har haft det sjovt på stranden lørdag. Jeg er nødt til at addmitt jeg ikke meget af en strand goer. Jeg er nødt til at være forsigtig med for meget sol. Os gamle hvide fyre brænder meget let. Vi gik til Blue Jazz og havde en fantastisk tid. Vi mødte en Austraian par der og havde en hyggelig snak, og derefter tilbage til Davao og frokost på Boyd 's Pizza. Brugt om P1800 for hele dagen ud. Ikke dårligt!
Steve,
Glad you enjoyed it. Hope to see you Wed night for the FoM Valentines Dinner.
Steve-ikke et øjeblik tænkte jeg, at du mente noget ond vilje! lol Voksne-hvis de er at være ærlig om, hvad de siger, sommetider er enige, og nogle gange uenige. Thats hvordan livet er. Og nogle gange er vi ikke såre andres følelser! Jeg sikker på gør! lol
Men som du Steve Jeg forsøger at være ærlig. Om hvem jeg er og hvad jeg tror i. Jeg kender masser af mennesker, der vil fortælle mig, hvad de synes, jeg ønsker at høre. Hvad jeg behøver, er mennesker, der vil fortælle mig, hvordan de truely feel, og hvis til tider mit ego bliver forslået, så må det være. Men så længe vi er tro om, hvorfor vi siger tingene, og ikke siger dem bare for at prøve at forårsage problemer, der er fint med mig. Selena sagde i morges om, hvordan udlændinge dræbt deres Pinay partnere [faktisk sagde hun, at hvis en Pinoy forlade sin kone "i det mindste hun stadig trækker vejret"] Selena dybest set kaldes enhver udlænding med en yngre kone en pædofil! For mig er den slags exteme udsagn ikke gør noget i forhold til at hjælpe os med at komme sammen i livet, og har til formål udelukkende at forårsage strid og hykleri. Så så vidt jeg er bekymret Steve har du intet at appologise for, i virkeligheden den første øl / kaffe på mig! lol
Ian,
Om "tilbage med sit liv, hvor omkring huset i, tror jeg, Lanang hvor en Aussie blev fundet begravet i forhaven og hans ex-kone og hendes kæreste blev anholdt for mordet.
Bruce, I will be in Leyte later this week and will try to tell you what happens when the crowd is together. My advantage is my wife has been here in the us for almost 15 years and her english is almost better than mine. She is a unit clerk at the hospital and uses english every day. My knowldge of dilect is very limited but my family there has always been willing to speak to me in English. As you said only two weeks at a time. I will watch and tell you what I see on the other language issue. I also know a little spanish and can understand some of the words spoken there. Most times I can follow the conversation. They are often suprised when I interject a few words into the conversation.
Don M,
Ja, giv mig en opdatering og måske en gæst artikel eller to til at dele din oplevelse.
I would be happy to send you an update on my return.
Don,
Thanks and a 200-500 word article with photos would be nice too.
Dette er begyndt at lyde som en skole papir er, at kollegiet regel papiret enkelt fordelt! haha
Bruce-hvordan får jeg info om teh F af M middag i denne uge? Jeg kan ikke synes at finde nogen oplysninger
Ian,
Jeg mailede dig svaret. For all others, there is a pre Valentines Day Dinner at Gardinia Frescia in Matina, 6pm.
The location is on Morales Village Road. Turn off MacArthur at the Jetti gas station just north of Buffet Palace.
Bruce- one thing on this site that drives me crazy is this- I try to read peoples comments as they are posted. But sometimes I go back to reread something- and thats when I find out that you have posted a comment 3 or 4 or 5 posts back that i never saw before. I guess you go back and place your comment where you feel it best fits in, but you are driving me crazy doing it !! lol As i said I try to be as lazy as possible and hope to find a way to read recent comments without scrolling back over the last 5 . Nogen forslag?
Ian,
Because of some technical difficulties, I was not able to answer all comments this morning. Plus if you change your name in the comment heading or if you change to upper case it goes in as a new commenter and into moderation for approval.
Hej Bruce,
It's been some time since I've posted anything here and for that I'm sorry.
But when I read your latest post I had to chuckle with tongue in cheek and add a little something here just for fun. Yep-that problem is even here in our neck of the woods too. Angeles is not exempt from the lack of English in the home.
I guess its just one of the many things one must get use to living here. But for the most part I have found it a real blessing too. I find that unless a conversation or statement is directed to me, I don't have to always be “tuned in.” So I'm free to continue with my own activities or thoughts.
I do spend a great deal of time outside of the home by choice. I have refused to isolate myself or be relegated to a self imposed purgatory.
My wife and I seem to spend adequate time together that the lack of English use in our home is not much of a problem.
Also, for myself, being on the local police dept I am in contact with locals all day long. They know I do not speak or understand the local language and so I have a good time trying to understand their use of English as I try to help solve whatever problems they are presenting me with.
I guess really, its all in the attitude one has and the determination to adjust to a different and often frustrating way of life…
Gen,
Yes it has been a long time hearing from you. I thought I insulted you or something.
It is good you found your niche. With the Police, do you get a whistle to blow and were a cute uniform with the ropes on the shoulder?
For me it is difficult since I enjoy conversation and sharing thoughts and ideas.
Wow-you're really up late! No, never an insult.
Yep, we get a wistle bun no sholder ropes. Now I feel deprived-hahaha!!
I enjoy the conversations and thought sharing. At times like those I visit a few foreigners that live close by. If fills the need but more often than not it just remindes me of a lot of the reasons I left the states and moved here.
Guess thats all for me tonight. Its my turn to get up early and play “Mr. Mom”, go to the school and do laundry.
Hmmm, I wonder how much Viol is going to pay me for doing all this “womans Work?” Just kidding—its nice to be able to help out and let her sleep a little bit later…
Gen,
Stand up for your rights, housemaids, even expat, needs decent wages.
I talked to my wife about this particular issue. We live in Texas and its very rare we run into Pinoys. When we do though, she speaks tagalog and I do not have a problem with it. We have also had pinoy visitors in our home and they speak tagalog, though my wife frequently brings me up to speed on the conversation. When we visited her hometown, it was about like you guys described. I would kind of hang out with and tend to my son while everyone chatted. The family was very nice and many of them had one on one chats with me. There were times when my wife was telling a story, and someone would break into english to ask me a clarifying question.
Of course, this was a short stay for me, so it never got to a point where it really grated on me. Its gotta be harder when that is a way of life. When I asked my wife the reason for this, she explained that it is very awkward for 2 pinoys to have a casual conversation in english. Imagine that you went through the effort of learning a second language and got good enough to hold conversations, but not really fluent. If you were to meet another english speaker in the same condition, it would be awkward to speak in the second language and much more comfortable to speak english. I imagine this would be especially true between family members.
I am not sure about the other folks here, but most of the chatter I have heard between pinoys has enough english mixed in that you can get the gist of the conversation. I am not trying to minimize anyone's angst here, but it seems natural that folks will have a strong preference to speak their first language.
-Lonnie
Lonnie,
It all depends on the level of English the family knows and how willing and respectful they are to talk to you.
Lonnie- I agree with you 100% . And I do appreciate that when they get excited, or are using anecdotal references that the natural inclination is to switch to the language that they feel most comfortable in. That I take for granted. What is the problem is when they are sitting at dinner with me, and they all know some english, and they all know that i do not speak either tagalog/visayan, they still refuse to show me any respect by talking in English. If my wife goes to another home I do not care what language she speaks in. If she is speaking to a relative on the phone i do not care what language she speaks in. When she is texting- which as you know is an almost full time event here- i dont care what language she speaks in. But when they are invited to eat at my table – that is when i expect to be treated with respect and have the conversation carried on in a language that we ALL can understand [ not just everyone EXCEPT me !!] People have said here ” well, if thats all you have to complain about thats nothing!”- but i can tell you that to me it certainly is something !!! There are many cultural differences and I honestly can say that I really do try to be considerate about those differences and to try not to make filipinos uncomfortable in my presence. But I deserve the same in return. And I will NOT give up like some and slink off into my bedroom to eat ! NOT IN THIS LIFETIME ! I will be as considerate as possible but i will not let you come into my home and disrespect me !!
Ian,
Again you tell it like it is. Too bad no matter what we do or live, we are not treated as equals.
Well, what about starting a food fight? you know, show that you are left out and flip some piece of food on a spoon at one of the main offenders? It will surely get their attention and may demonstrate the unfairness of their behaviour. Dont pick on a violent type though. Preferably a woman. It may turn out to be a fun night and you know, I think it could result in them thinking: “Hey! He was right. We are being rude.”
Roger,
DO you want me kicked out of the house? We all have to find our niche if there is this type of mix of family. As someone famous once said “you need to pick your battles”.
uh Gene- if you do windows I have an empty maids room you can use ! lol
Ian and Bruce,
You both bring up good points. My wife probably feels like you guys do. She is isolated in a foreign place, but has made it her home. The household language is not her first language, but her husband, child and neighbors all speak American. She spends a lot of time online chatting with her family… so much so that our little boy dancing on webcam is routine here. My wife fills me in on the latest family drama and all the funny observations that her family tells her about us and our kid.
With this said, the dinner table should be as sacred as the bedroom in the sense that both husband and wife should be partners with a unifying theme. In these venues, neither should feel like an outsider.
-Lonnie
Lonnnie,
Unfortunately for me, my nieces are not willing to make the effort to speak in English and have conversations with me and my wife will not exert any power towards them. I think she prefers not using English so much so it is an easy out. I love my wife and my nieces even without the conversations. I am not prepared or have any thoughts of leaving my wife, so this is one of my “Crosses to bear.”
MindanaoBob posted comments on his blog to the affect that he wouldnt name THIS blog so as not to embarrass people here who had a problem with people not speaking English at meals when the foreigner owner was present . [ I hope i havent misrepresented what he said- i'm trying to be honest here]
Bob said that as we are invited guests in this country it is up to us to learnt to speak tagalog or visayan. My comment to Bob was that I agreed with him- invited guests should respect the host- and that as invited guests in my house I expected them to show me that respect. But I do have to thank Bob to referring me to someone who teaches Visayan. Previously Bruce said that he couldnt afford a teacher and now I see why- the person Bob referred me to charges 250 pesos for 1-1/2 hours . But I will make an effort to learn more – just to make life a bit more fun.
Ian,
I commend Bob for his taking the time, money and effort to learning Bisaya. He has stated in the past he started and stopped. Then he made up his mind to DO IT, and he has.
I also remember a long time ago he stated he would only allow English in his home. Times change and idea and ideals change too.
We also need to remember Bob is an Entrepreneur and knowing the language can help him in his business activities. He also has been here in the Philippines for almost 10 years.
Another advantage for him was his wife lived in the States for, if I am correct, 15 years so she is able to conduct herself in English fairly well.
As I have stated on the recent past, I am not trying to condemn the Filipino people or this country, I am just trying to open the minds of people thinking of retiring here and some things they might encounter.
As I state, this is not America, the UK or Europe. This is an Asian country with a mix of cultures. There are so many differences to life here. Some sites like to paint a pretty picture and some condemn everything.
Some do it for activity and some for income. I make barely any money from this site and am not knowledgeable to use the internet to make an income to support a family. Some readers are kind enough to donate to this site to help, but it is few and far between. Some promise continued support but that never happens. I do not expect the readers to feel they need to support me. As long as I can find topics about life here I will continue to write. If I “piss” off some, so be it. I do not lie, or sugar coat life here as “the best place to live next to Eden' unless your in Toril and close to Eden Nature Park.
I started this site to tell about my life here and over time have tried to develop it as a guide for others making the move.
Bruce, thanks for giving us a place to learn about ourselves. You should be very proud of the service you are providing. Keep bringing us together.
SteveinDavao
Steve,
As I mentioned in a reply to Ian, My site has developed from this is me, to this is life here. Some of my articles has even caused arguments in my home.
I have also outraged some people and had negative comments from other Blogs. This is fine. I try not to insult anyone and respect the other blogs information and what the present to their readers. I do not steal or plagiarize other ideas as I know. Recently I have been too busy to visit many of the other similar sites I enjoy.
I write from my experiences and observations living here. Not all experiences or lives are the same. Some Expats have more money so they can live a better life. Some are single and enjoy a different lifestyle then me or others live.
Some have girlfriends or wives closer in age, some with larger differences. Some have educated ladies or employed and some have ladies with basic education and no work experience. Because of this, each ones situation is different.
If I am able to open each others minds, and share experiences it will help others in similar situations.
With this I have made some good friends through this site. Some I have met as with you and some I only communicate via the internet. With all this, I am happy and proud of the footprint I have made through this site.
Bruce,
Just noticed your last reply to mine. It's ok really.I get a great salary for playing house maid. Lots of great food as Viol loves cooking. And to be able to spend my life with the greatest wife that a guy could ever have.
I'd say thats the best salary I could have.
Besides, it's nice to be able to help her out round here. And on mornings that she does the choars, she brings me coffee and breakfast in bed.Truly, life doesn't get any better than than…
Gen,
I was joking just as housewives in America are not paid in cash. It sounds, even with a tight budget, you have a good life there.
Hi Ian,
yap I do windows also. But thats only because im taller than Viol. Or atleast thats what she tells me. Hahaha…
it's really hard to understand and speak visayam language, tagalog is our first anguage, i can speak bisaya but when someone is speaking i can't understand any single words she said, hahahahaha
Alantooth,
I guess your not native to this area and are from the Manila region. Do not feel bad not understanding Bisaya, I cannot understand it either.
hahaha what i mean bruce i can still speak bisaya but when i met someone and can speak better than me, i can't understand what the hell she's talking… lol
Allantooth,
Then talk Tagalog, everyone exept foreigners know that.
hi bruce,
thanks for a very nice site. i am curious and very much entertained by observations of expats like you on filipinos and the philippines in general. it's nice to know about how foreigners and most especially westerners like you think about us and our way of life.
i am a local currently living in the country and i really apologize if you feel offended if filipinos speak in the local language if they are in front of you. i sincerely feel that no offense is meant by it. maybe it's just a matter of filipinos communicating to other filipinos, a matter of one doing the easiest thing, which is speak one's first language. maybe the same thing would also happen if two americans converse with each other in a party in france even if the host is french, except if the americans are addressing the host directly. so maybe unless you are addressed directly, filipinos among ourselves always speak in the local language as a matter of convenience. shyness in speaking imperfect english i believe also has nothing to do with it.
unless of course it's in a business setting where english is the medium of communication, as in the call centers.
great website and keep it up.
Iccph2000,
I do not mind Filipinos talking to Filipinos in when I am out or when I am not part of their conversation. What upsets me in a social or family setting being left out of conversations and when asked what the topic is, I just get “nothing”
maybe they can't speak your language, it doesn't mean you're not part of their conversation or they left you out, just like me, i cant speak your language fluently, it always happens to me my cousins from states tryin to catch me up in yahoo messenger i hef to pause for a while and look for my pocket english dictionary, joke!!!!
Alantooth,
You are right, at times I am not in their conversation, they probably are talking about me.
Bruce- don't be discouraged as people will always speak what is most common and more comfortable to them. In time most formalities wear off such as in the case of you first going to the PI. What you are dealing with is cultural and generational barriers. It seems like you want to have deeper and more personal conversations with your nieces but this is a common problem in society with every country.
There is no quick way or answer to your issue of being felt left out in the conversations. If you think of how people interact and the fact that people will always feel most comfortable who they can indentify most with. Groups and conversations will always be centered around race, age and interests.
Even if you learned the language right down to the most perfect accent you will still be left out in some cases. I remember reading about Non japanese people moving and living in Japan, even some half japanese/Brazilian and no matter how proficient they were in Japanese they would still be considered outsiders.
If you are not willing to learn the language at this point, which i understand because it is difficult after a certain age and time in life. Then I would suggest just continue speaking english, being as honestly polite as you can and like Steve said in other posts don't let it rot your mind.
You probably don't think they know you are frustrated, but your frustration is probably felt by them as well. You said you had to bear another cross and your right, you probably do in this case. The only suggestion I can offer is to get more interested in what your nieces like but it has to be genuine or get them to find something interesting in you. I know everyone on these boards are of a certain “senior” age but I always go with the old adage that once you stop learning in life, your pretty much dead.
Living plants are flexible, In death, they become dry and brittle.
Also when you think people are talking about you, most chances they are but how you react will determine how long they will keep talking about you.
Anyways keep posting your thoughts, your observations are pretty interesting.
Hej Bruce,
Just found your site today and have read a couple of your articles – very good, very interesting!
I'ma Brit who has spent the past 2 UK winters here in Manila. I came here December '08 (aged 44) to meet my stunning online Filipina, April (25) plus her family of course, and then returned October '09 to see the beautiful little daughter we created between us, haha!
Regarding language issues, you do sound a little down regarding this problem, for sure. I know what you're talking about, since April's family all sit around yakking away in Tagalog too. They complain of 'nosebleed' whenever they have to speak English. Have you heard that term?
I have tried pretty hard to learn Tagalog, but it's a seriously tough language to crack. Sure, the pronunciation is non-intuitive to us Westerners, but worse than that is the diabolical (seemingly random) word ordering of each sentence. And they have about 6 different words for 'you'. And every verb has a different word depending on the tense you use! OK there are some patterns, but they are hopelessly complex and unreliable. Like the Philippines itself, the language has little logic or structure to it … it's Tough with a capital 'T'!
So anyway, after a lot of effort I gave up. Now I just let their yakking wash over me, and I try to pick out the occasional word and maybe use that to occasionally interrupt and say, “Hey, are you talking about ?” … following which April will generally tell me what's being said.
And there's a running joke here that whenever I hear them say, “Blah blah blah blah si Mike blah blah blah” I just go (literally), “HOI, blah blah blah **si Mike*** blah blah blah???” with raised eyebrows, and then they tell me what they're saying about me that I should know. It seems to work OK, but much of the time I'm just left to my own thoughts tbh (when the family are around). When it's just me, April and Anni (our daughter) then obviously English is spoken.
My suggestion to you is that you try to engage with your Wife at some opportune moment about what was being said at the table (say) just with a view to showing interest and getting up to date with what's happening. And then don't be afraid to gently but persistently grill her on some matter that they were discussing, especially if she tries to brush you off. If this annoys her somewhat then hey, now she knows how it feels to be annoyed! Just an idea, give it a go.
On another subject, I got robbed (pick-pocketed) out of P5k the other day on a Jeepney here in Las Pinas. I guess you guys all have your own cars etc, so you don't need my warning. But just to say, don't travel on Jeepneys, especially with a very young and vulnerable (and cute!) baby on your knee, cos you will be wide open to the 'Laglag Peso' gang who operate hereabouts!
Anyway, great site Bruce, think I'll be a regular visitor here even when I'm back in the freezin' cold UK (as of mid-March).
Mike in Las Pinas,
I do feel a little down. I enjoy conversations. It helps me get to know people, their life, their customs, what they enjoy, do not like and all about life here in my new country. The hard part is I can have great conversations with strangers and so little with my nieces who live in my home. When I ask what is being said, most times I get in reply “nothing.” As you say, learning the language here with different letter pronunciations, grammar and sentence structure, it is a difficult task.
I have heard of all the crime and pickpocketing in Luzon. Here in Davao I have not heard of any pickpocket problem from foreigners but had heard of a Filipino friend who had a cell phone case on his belt and had his phone stolen on a jeepney ride. That is why I keep mine in my pocket.
On a side note about honesty here in Davao. I keep my cell phone in the same pocket that I keep my paper money and money clip. A few times in a restaurant, I pulled out my cell phone and my money fell out. Every time it happened a Filipino called my attention to it and then bent over, retrieved my money and handed it to me.
Hey Bruce,
One thing I would say regarding your (young?) nieces is that in general young (eg teenage) women/girls do go out of their way to avoid discussions with 'old men' like us. I have a 16 year old daughter and having chats with her is like getting blood out of a stone! It just isn't 'cool' for them to be discussing their affairs with us old farts. So, don't feel too bad about your nieces, it just might be a teenage thing (or similar).
But seriously, try chatting to your wife about the conversation at the last meal (that you understood none of). Ask her to summarise the main points for you. This will keep you up to date with events, allow you to enjoy a good chat with your Missus, and probably bring it home to her just how much the language issue does result in your missing (ie she might see how you're getting isolated).
Having said that the one value that Pinoys seem to lack almost completely is empathy. Perhaps because life here is so hard, they don't do empathy!
Finally, my view (controversial!) is that it's unreasonable to expect a group of folks to converse in a foreign tongue just because there's one foreigner there who can't understand what they're saying. Even if it's his house! Me, I'd just let it wash over me BUT I would expect to have a conversation with my wife at some point to establish what I missed (the main points anyway).
Just giving my view, that's all ;o)
Mike in Las Pinas,
You are correct in your views, but I would expect more than a one word answer to my questions. Well that is life here.
Hi Bruce, First time writing here, but I've discovered your site and find it to be very interesting, with a lot of worthwhile comments from readers contributing too.
I'm sorry that you're kind of down about the language barrier, and I never realized that it was such a major issue among many, but now see that it really could be a big problem.
If I could make a suggestion–you seem like an approachable kind of guy, and someone interested in people. Have you ever considered volunteering at a nearby elementary school? You could trade your English conversational knowledge with simple lessons in the local language. English is taught to the children on a simple level, and your practicing the dialect on a simple level, with less judgement coming from small children might be a help to you. Maybe a barter system between teachers or where you all could learn each others' conversational dialect together would be good. I know that this approach helped me when I first started out, and it might help you and others too.
Maybe your wife and extended family would cut you some slack, and meet you halfway at the dinner table if you tried this.
This may or may not even appeal to you, and that's fine too, but you could give it a try.
If I can give any advice in learning the language, never underestimate the abilities of children in your household and extended family to helping you with your language skills. Grammar is not that important, just basic conversation is all you really need to start. You really only need some vocabulary and simple phrases to get started, and they're always happy to help and they don't even mind when you goof up!
Queenbee,
Tak for dit besøg og kommentering. I have seen your comments at the other site we both visit. I hope you will continue to enjoy my writings.
I like working with kids. I have never thought about what you propose. I have heard some schools and teachers feel insulted when a foreigner offers to volunteer your assistance. It makes them feel they are not qualified to do what they are paid to do.
If you have any contacts in Davao, I would be happy to assist in any school.
Sorry Bruce, I wouldn't know of any contacts in Davao. But I can't imagine any school there not being glad for any attention and interest that you might bring. Something to consider anyway…
Queenbee,
Thank you, I will look into it.
Hi Bruce, My husband had an idea for you, he said that possibly you could approach a local high school or technical school and let them know that you are looking for a tutor in Visayan. He seemed to think that many older students would jump at the chance for a small payment and a snack once a week. You could also spend some time conversing with them in English just to let them practice too.
Another idea anyway, I thought that it was a good possibility to learn too, without expensive lessons.
Queenbee,
Thank you and thank your husband. I will look into it.
I am here in the USA and my Fiance (Filipina) has been here two week's her and her family had told me to learn Bisaya first because Bisaya can speak Tagalog but Tagalog can not speak Bisaya. As far as learning to speak their language i believe and so many others most that do not wish to learn are just lazy. My Fiance speaks Bisaya Tagalog Japanese and English and i am slowly having her teach me all. I want to learn just as much as i can and for those already retired living their you must have plenty of time to learn. Also there is this site you can go to they teach for free http://liveinthephilippines.co.....gory/bebe/ and for those wanting to learn Tagalog use http://www.rosettastone.com/
you will learn fast. Good luck!
Terry,
Since your gf is in the states, you have time to learn before you move here, if it your plan.
I am glad you are willing to learn both languages. Reading your comment, your logic sounds flawed. If you lean Bisaya only people who speak that language can understand you, if you learn Tagalog all Filipinos can understand you.
About lazy, ok, many are. There are some that have trouble learning. By reading you will not learn the pronunciation and many voels hare are pronounced different than english speakers. Good luck to your learning.
Hej Bruce,
I just wanted to report back about my progress with Tagalog issue in my house. Luckily for me, after bit of insisting (and couple of big arguments) my asawa ko got the point and started using English all the time. Just recently, we had a get together with some friends, also mixed couples, however this time my wife was only one among filipinas to always use English (not as before when all ladies yapped in Tagalog constantly) and in no time at all other girls started to follow. I can tell you that it was very refreshing that all rest of the guys could join the conversation as well, not as before when ladies and gents separated.
I have a high hopes that until I learn Tagalog, English will keep as connected because I don't wanna end up like one of the guys I saw during my last visit to Philippines. We went out to have a picnic by the beach and in this case the white guy came with about 20 Filipino family members. That group was particularity noisy, apparently they had a good time, except this poor white guy just sat there quietly and looked around with resignation in his eyes.
since I plan to retire there one day myself, I definitely plan to learn Tagalog even before I leave American continent and make sure that English is constantly used in our house over there as well.
Marcel,
I am glad your wife finally understood your discomfort. I hope it will continue when you move to the Philippines.
BTW Bruce, I wonder if you would not mind to write about your experiences from earlier in your marriage with you Pinay wife…
It would be nice to compare the notes.
Myself, I have been married to my wife for just a 2 years now, thereof, we are still considered newlyweds.
There are so many, by themselves very insignificant things we are going trough day by day in our life together that have to do with our cultural differences, which is totally different from what I have experienced with white ladies before…
For example, sometimes I joke with my wife that she has no sense of humor, does not understand sarcasm. Also from time to time when I comment on something and forget about it next second she remains upset about it for 2 days because she takes everything personally.
Marcel,
I will try to write about such differences. I too have been with my wife for a little over two years and our second anniversary is this coming June 9th.
Hej Bruce,
Found your website very interesting.I live in Australia but visit
Davao every year for a couple of weeks.I am married to Filipina
and have a 9yo son. Read your comments about family members
not speaking English when you are present.
I have had the same experience, but mainly from younger family
members. My theory is that younger GenY filipinos lack the respect
for elders as per traditional filipino values. Maybe they see foreigners as just a source of money,whom they dont have to pay
respect for.
Anyway- great website
Rob,
Thank you for enjoying my site. I find many older Filipinos, whee they are in a job where they never need english forget it. Also many young Filipinos enjoy speaking English. It depends on the person, not the age. Some feel it is not their language so why bother using it, no matter who only speaks English and some are caring enough to try.
The communication isolation is the most difficult thing for me living in the Philippines. I have started paying attention to foreigners when they are out with their lovers family in public, particularly in restaurants, and have found that many times they may be sitting with 24 people, but they are alone and isolate. All they are there for is to pay the bill.
When my next door neighbor is in town he generally invites me to go out to dinner with them at least one time while he is here visiting. On every occassion if not for me he would have been totally isolated. This was particularly noticeable at a birthday party he gave for his lovers son. Family and friends were there, at least 100 people, he had paid for the event held in a local restuarant and except for one lady when the event was over they left and did not say one word to him.
It is a common problem that I think all foreigners living in the Philippines go through rather if they admit it or not.
Tom,
I am glad it is not only me that sees that. I was at a restaurant at a local lodging. There was a foreigner sitting with his lady and 7 female family members. He looked so lonely and bored. All the ladies were eating, talking and laughing and he looks so out of place. Only one or 2 times did his lady tell him what was going on, but only in one or 2 sentences.
I have been leaving in the Philippines for 3 years and you do feel so isolated when people are talking around you and you can't understand. I can speak many Bisayan words, but not at conversation speed. Thanks for the website, I just found it. I am glad to find out I am not alone in Davao/Philippines.
Patrick,
Welcome and thank you for enjoying my site. If you have any observations or experiences you would like to share with the readers, please email me through the “contact me” tab and I will be happy to publish.
This was a very interesting discussion. I have been texting my wife-to-be about this issue. I will be living in Surigao and she says not to try to learn Bisaya or Surigaonon, because they are too difficult and Tagalog is the National language, so I should learn that one and then she can help me learn Surigaonon when I come.
Don,
Good your willing to try to learn before you move there. I have tried at times but never caught on.
i just bumped into your site and got interested. hmmm… i am a Filipina from Mindanao and currently in Cebu working at an american firm. outsourcing is quite booming and i took the opportunity to join the pool of resources Americans need.
i didnt know you guys are a bit insulted when we start talking in our dialect. it not a wonder now why my boss required us to speak in english whenever we are in the office.
thanks for this… and ill keep my twang when i talk to my colleagues tomorrow.
I am glad I don't understand most of what they are saying. Most people's conversations are usually gossip anyway, in any language. I have been married to a filipina for 14 years and have had many a christmas and new years where tagalog was the primary language. If it is important enough for me to know my wife will interpret. I have a few foreign friends who speak tagalog well. It doesnt seem to make things any better from what I can see. Ignorance is bliss!
Paul,
If you like to be in a situation where everyone is talking but you cannot follow what is being said and cannot be part of it, then it is a great situation for you.
Don,
I was meaning, if you would so be inclined, to write about your trip and experiences on your trip.